In the ever-evolving story of corporate buyouts (Wilderness Systems, bought by Confluence, which was then bought by Pelican) it appears that the Wilderness Systems Tsunami 165 and 175 are being manufactured again! (Along with the Tempest 165 and 170.) As a longtime owner of a Tsunami 165 who has been depressed that they seemed gone forever, this is great news!
What’s funny (or suspicious) is that the webpage for the Tsunami 165 is all befuddled…the pics are of one of their dinky day-touring Tsunami 125’s, and even the description is of the Tsunami 125…but the price tag is definitely for a BIG Tsunami ($2,169) and there’s a photo of the big one at the top of the page. (C’mon Pelican! How hard is it to get your website in order???)
Of course these are all plastic boats, so plastic haters couldn’t care less about this, LOL (Said with a wink!) But if you like plastic boats (and I do), the Tsunami 165/175 are (IMO) the greatest long-distance plastic touring kayaks ever made when it comes to sheer gear-hauling power! Sure there are better plastic boats…but none with a 400-lb capacity. (That’s some serious gear storage!)
You can still occasionally find these boats secondhand…but for anyone looking to buy a fast, long-distance touring kayak, you can’t go wrong with either of the Tsunamis or Tempests. They don’t weigh that much more than composite boats, and they’re bulletproof.
I replaced my aging Tarpon 160 with a new Tarpon 140. The 160 is no longer made.
Best I can tell the 140 has been changed by Pelican. It is a slug in the water.
When it comes to speed, I think the 2 feet between 14 and 16 feet makes a BIG difference! And who knows…if Pelican is making the Tsunamis again, the might start making the Tarpon 160 again?
So right after posting that the Wilderness Systems Tsunami’s are being made again…I read in another thread that Pelican (who owns Wilderness Systems) is filing for bankruptcy and/or is for sale.
Oh geez…I sure hope this doesn’t mean the end of Wilderness Systems! As the maker of some of the best plastic kayaks on the market, I really want them to survive and thrive! Honestly I couldn’t care less about any of Pelican’s other brands (except maybe Werner).
The Tempests have been available all along. Dealers need to order pre-season in order to get them, but they’ve been available.
The Tarpon 140 has NOT been modified in any way. It’s the same boat it was pre-2020. The other Tarpons got refreshed in 2019 (?) but not the 140. If someone wants a fast (relative) 14 footer, the Swell Watercraft Scupper 14 is the boat.
The Tsunami 165 and 175 have also been available for dealers to order pre-season. Low sales volume boats, so they don’t build to stock, but there are a few shops that have a need for them.
On the Pelican front, a new buyer was selected by the Canadian court in charge of the case last week. The new owners have a history with Pelican and plenty of cash available via a major player in Quebec commercial real estate. The Elie family, who founded Pelican, is out of the picture.
I knew the Tempests have always been available…but there was at least a year or two when the Tsunamis were not on the Wilderness Systems website…so I assumed they were gone. Sounds like if I want a Tsunami 175, I might just have to find a dealer to special order one for me.
I wasn’t familiar with the Grizzly—and it definitely looks like a great long-distance gear-hauling boat! The Tsunami 175’s capacity is greater (about 350lbs for the Grizzly versus 400lbs for the Tsunami)…and I admit I’ve never carried anywhere near that amount of gear! (The Tsunami 175 is also 6" longer.)
The way I see it, the higher the overall capacity of a boat, the higher it will float in the water—which often translates to greater speed (all other things being equal).
The best strategy is to find both kayaks and test paddle them. I can’t find specs that list the deck height of the Grizzly, but side by side comparison gives an idea of the profile. The Grizzly looks to be a little lower on the front deck which could affect foot room for large paddlers.
The 175 Tsunami is 24" wide as well, but the front deck is listed as 15" tall. Although the 175 front deck is 1" shorter, and the hull is .5 narrower than the 145 Tsunami, the 175 foot area is greater because the front deck is 18" longer. That could be a deciding factor if more foot room is needed for a tall paddler with large feet. That tall deck also parts waves and water more effectively. If the 175 proves to be too cavernous for a smaller paddler, the 165 Tsunami has the same deck height as the 175, but the width of 23.5" inches and a max capacity of 350 lbs would be a great option. Although I can’t attest to the qualities of the Grizzly, the features are close enough to give both a tryout.
Several features attracted me to the Tsunami. I started with a long kayak in the 140 Pungo (28" wide) then the 125 Tsunami (26" wide). First, the sense of predictable stability is nearly identical with the Pungo model through all the Tsunami models. I believe that can be attributed to the multi-chine hull design. Next is the comfort of the Phase Three seats; to be able to manage long trips, I needed the back support, rather than the limited support provided by the backband offered in more advanced sea kayaks. Aa already mentioned, the load capacity was more suited for my size (I technically overloaded the 125 and 145 Tsunami, although both shorter model served me well). The 175 Tsunamu with 400 lb max capacity gave me a safe load rating of between 240 lbs and 265 lbs. At 255 lbs, and my current weight of 230 lbs, the 175 is in my correct weight class.
I’ve been selling and paddling Wilderness since 09 and i I can’t remember a year where they didn’t make either model. But that doesn’t mean that I’m correct. They have definitely removed some lengths of the Tsalami throughout the years but I don’t think stopped production. I think they only do one production run of the year for the Tsalami, possibly for the Tempest too, which limits the amount of those models available to be for sale. Personally, the Tsunami isn’t my favorite boat, a slog but a confidence booster for some. The Tempest is a faster, more nimble, surfable and playful kayak that I find to be a lot of fun in all conditions of water. A touch easier to carry too. One of my preferred roto sea kayaks but never discredit the Tsalamis abilities.
People look for different attributes in a kayak. The Tempest is faster under most conditions, but I don’t fit in a Tempest. The Zephyr at 23 inches was close but still tight with no foot room, and it was discontinued. Not everyone fits in a svelt 21 inch boat with an 11 inch deck.
Well in the the “For what it’s worth” category: I’m 5’11" and 215lbs. And I have size 11.5 feet, and I have no trouble fitting into either my Tsunami 165 or my Tempest 170. The Tsunami is definitely roomier, and more stable.
I’ve been paddling both boats hard, interchangeably, on workout paddles of 3-6 miles in a wide range of conditions (dead-calm to 2-3’ wind waves and 30mph gusts). I haven’t been super-precise and scientific about it…but what I’ve observed is that the boats are actually very close in average speed. If I average 5mph in my Tempest, I’ll average 4.8mph in the Tsunami (which is 6" shorter). Not a big difference. (Or 4mph in the Tempest = 3.8 or 3.9mph in the Tsunami.)
I’ve said this in another thread…but I think the Tsunami makes up for it’s increased volume by having a rudder. In the Tempest, I’m having to use leans and subtle sweeps to stay on course…and that uses some energy—energy that’s “robbed” from my forward stroke. In the Tsunami (as with any boat with a rudder) I steer with my feet and am able to dedicate 100% of my power to moving forward, all the time.
It would be interesting to measure these boats at several points from the ends. Looking at the top-down pics of the Tsunami and Grizzly above, you can see that Tsunami carries the width and volume farther fore and aft of the cockpit before tapering down. I think. LOL (At least it feels that way compared with my Tempest.)
In any case, a narrower, more stilleto-like design may be faster…but when paddling in big open water, I’d rather have added volume for added buoyancy than the extra .5mph a narrower boat might give you.
Just for fun, here’s a quick Photoshop job where I scaled both boats to their correct relative lengths (17’6" and 16’) and overlaid them. You can see the significant added volume in the Tsunami in the bow and stern (greater width carried fore and aft).
You highlight the importance of testing a boat before buying it. I wanted the 170 Tempest, until I needed a shoe horn to get into it, but it just wouldn’t work.
That’s when I settled on the 175 Tsunami. I was with @Craig_S when he bought his 180 Tempest. Sitting in it felt like a custom fit for me.
There is no substitute for sitting in a boat and then paddling it, because everyone has different body ratios. I’ve paddled the 145 Tsunami for years, then recently bought a used rudder-equipped 145 for my nephew. Despite the standard model having more than enough space for my legs and feet, I couldn’t bend my legs enough to get my feet on the rudder controls (the same issue with the two rudder-equipped 140 Tsunamis that I bought for family use). Since the price was right, I bought it thinking I could either move the seat back or replace the rudder controls with standard foot pegs (moving the seat rearward by 43mm changed the balance and made the boat uncontrollable when following waves pushed the boat over 6.4 mph). After the seat option didn’t work, I removed the rudder that isn’t necessary for that length and installed standard pegs (sourced from Blue Mountain Outfitters at a lower price than I could find online; BMO IS a great retail source in the Harrisburg, PA area).
I appreciate you detailed review and comparison of the 165 Tsunami with other models. The 165 might be a better fit for me at my current weight. Your previous posts were detailed and mirrors my own experience with the Tsunami line. I had to laugh after comparing your details to the forum posts from 2006 that were essentially degrading comments about the boat and the people who buy that model. Both you and Craig gave realistic evaluations and evidence that a “barge” may not be as fast as a 21 inch wide, $5,000 kayak. It shows that reasonable speed can be achieved in a superbly stable kayak, if the paddler has the skill and power to push it.
Another recent post discussed a kayak that is similar to the 125 Tsunami at half the cost. The decision about which is better should always include a tryout.
It’s unfortunate that certain kayaks are denegrated along with those who prefer them, simply because the boat is stable and not fitted like wearing a girdle. One feature that I consider is a boat to keep me above water rather than in it, even if that makes me a rube. Tsunamis are not just suited for flat water. If I haven’t misunderstood, Craig believes that in choppy water, the 175 Tsunami performs better for him than the 170 Tempest, but I’d have to go back and review his specific post to be certain.
About two years ago, I contacted WS and asked the customer rep on the phone about the changes to the 140 and 145 Tsunamis and asked about the decision to discontinue the longer models. I wasn’t satisfied with the reply, which souded like canned sales banter, but I wasn’t sure if he was merely justifying the corporate decision or whether he was even aware of the model changes or the models that were actually discontinued. So in hindsight, you may actually be correct. On the other hand, it’s remotely possible that inventory of old stock has not yet been depleted. That seems unlikely since there seems to be adequate availability of the long Tsunamis, when most kayaks brands seem to be sold outright with the new model year and manufacturing typically doesn’t seem to be able to catch up.
The sea kayak market in my area has been suplanted by rec style kayaks, SOT, fishing kayaks, and paddle boards. Consequently, there could be a glut of long dusty Tsunamis in warehouses. An online search does show an wide availability of 165 and 175 Tsunamis in stock. A check of serial numbers could confirm that theory.
It’s worth noting that the Tsunami line is a spacious kayak designed for large paddlers. My 145 lb sister did not like my 145 model, but she tested a 140 and loved it. However, I might add that I grossly overloaded the 125 Tsunami, rated for a 300 lb max load. Even paddling the boat at 255 lbs (safe load 180 to 198), it never felt unsuited or handicapped.
Great thoughts @Jyak! I agree. The “boat fitting like a girdle” argument to me is a lot like the “real paddlers use skegs” argument (which I think has effectively been debunked). And all other things being equal, my years of whitewater racing and paddling taught me that a boat that sits higher in the water (when you’re in it) will always be better than one that sits lower in the water (faster, more maneuverable, everything is just better).
I tell people that boats are like hiking shoes: you always want to get them at least a half-size too big (and my hiking shoes are always a full size larger than my feet), because you want and need that extra space!
What saddens me about today’s kayak market (but I guess I understand it) is how people’s laziness (and yes, in some cases their legitimate disabilities) prevent them from owning a boat that might weigh 10-20lbs more but performs VASTLY better than their 10-foot, thin plastic Lifetime-brand bathtub. It seems where kayaks are concerned, ease of transporting the boat ALWAYS beats performance.
I’ve always accepted the added work of hossing around a heavy boat as the price to pay for performance. (And yes, I know that composite boats are lighter…but they have always been beyond my financial capacity! Not to mention nowhere near as bulletproof…)
The Tsunami 175’s capacity is greater (about 350lbs for the Grizzly versus 400lbs for the Tsunami)…and I admit I’ve never carried anywhere near that amount of gear! 
(The Tsunami 175 is also 6" longer.)
The Tsunami is definitely roomier, and more stable.