Wilderness Systems Tsunami 165/175 being made again?!?!

[Jyak]

I prefer the characteristics of the 145 Tsunami, but appreciate the seaworthiness of the 175. The extra length and weight is not somethin I look forward to on each trip, but the performance difference is enough to compensate.

My approach is simplicity. Skegs and rudders are accessories I’d rather live without. They add weight, complexity and degrade speed. Why use a boat that offers a .5 mph edge when you drop the rudder and negate .2 or .3 of that edge. For propulsion, I want the most transparent paddle I can find. A more expensive or lighter paddle doesn’t necessarily make the trip go faster, but it does make the experience more enjoyable. I only deal with the weight of the boat when I load and unload the kayak, as I tote it about 100 ft, but fir the duration of the trip, I have the pleasure of relaxing and not worrying about stabity. I’ve never had concerns about stability, so I have no desire to change to a more spirited horse. I don’t know how to describe the conditions that I encounter. All I know is that morevthan once, my brother who owns a 21 ft power boat is coming in because it’s too rough, while I’m going out. I keep hearing that Tsunamis are pigs or they’re barges. Based on what I’ve been able to calculate, upgrading would only add a few tenths of an mph to the overall speed potential.

I reseached faster boats, but that involves a tradeoff between comfort and stability, as well as durability and cost. I don’t mind paying more for a boat, but not if it degrades durability and stability. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. There is always a faster boat, so if I want to go faster, all I have to do is figure out how to paddle smarter.

Anyone interested in a Tsunami or Tempest should go back and read your post in the archives.

You mention that your stats are not scientific, but they’re consistent with what I’ve observed and what @Craig_S has found to be consistent with his experimentation.

[Jyak]

I’d like to loft a 17 ft 6 in Tsunami and build a stitch and glue plywood version for a lighter, stiffer boat. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t be as durable as the roto-mold version.

[Erk]

I think the Tsunami vs Tempest in rough water varies from person to person. I’ve never had as much fun nor control in a tsunami like I have in a tempest and I’ve taken both out on glassy days to spring conditions on the Great Lakes. I know people who feel the opposite and the tsunami is more comfortable and having the rudder aid a little or counter act agains the wind or water current too or be more helpful on crossings. They’re both great boats, cockpits are similar in size but overall volume of the tsunami is a little larger. And noticeably so.

I’ve always heard the opposite… a good paddler doesn’t need a rudder or skeg, and have seen some people remove the skeg box entirely. I personally am a skeg over rudder and over nothing at all when paddling a kayak above 15’. Anything under, I’m not sold on either for a kayak unless you’re using it for drift while fishing, or playing in the surf. Which is where wearing your kayak fits in extra nice. Much like a white water boat.

@Shadepine sorry, I don’t think I follow your logic on sizing up your hiking shoes a whole size. Half maybe?. Running maybe, but I don’t run so I have no idea how to get running shoes. I do think that a proper fitting shoe or boot should fit proper. I’ve fit people for many types of shoes/boots from several brands. We’re talking Kayland. Salewa. La Sportiva. keen. Oboz. Merrel. Lowa. North Face. Mountaineering to lightweight hikers to paddling. I can recall several customers claiming that they’re a 12, so I’d measure their feet on a brannock (both feet), width and arch included, relaxed and weighted. See that they’re a 10 or 11… whatever they ended up being and sneaking out the correct size for the to try on. Most times they loved the fit and feel after making them do simulated hiking tests then later to mention I snuck in a different size. Rarely would someone say no even after they claimed it felt great. My point is, being measured correctly and trying on correct footwear can save the potential chances of over sliding inside your shoes causing increased hot spots and friction, hopefully being blister and pain free. Also reducing a collapsing arch, which elongates your foot when weighted and makes you buy bigger shoes. Every shoe or boot has a different last. Every brand has a different last for different models. Some companies, like Scarpa, offer an excellent and more precise fit for a wider range of foot shapes. You might not have ever experienced this with your purchases, and I truly hope you’ve had good experiences with your footwear. Great places. Many miles. No pain. After touching feet and learning some about our biomechanics, I’ve heard that theory before and just can’t agree with it all of the time.

Sorry to sound like a know it all from the safety of behind my phone screen on the couch. What is that myth, we only use 10% of our brains capacity? Well, I probably use 5% and burnt the other 5% from my earlier days. So no telling what I’m even talking about

[Jyak]

The Tempest has a distinct performance edge; however, the design features that add stability to the Tsunami manage to do so without much compromise to the performance.

While avid kayakers bemoan the declining interest in kayaking, its not uncommon to find posts on the forum critical of perfectly sound, seaworthy kayaks, the Tsunami included. Several competent and highly experienced kayakers have taken the time to post extensive data comparing the widely respected Tsunami to the Tsunami.

They made several points. At least two Tsunami drivers have length backgrounds in white water kayaking, which feature some of the tippiest boat designs. That shows a long time comfort in paddling tippy kayaks. I started boating in canoes but once tried my brother’s slalom kayak. Altgough I couldn’t stay upright, resurfacing wasn’t a problem, just a staying upright; not a fear of being trapped in the boat, even though I did have a problem getting out, because I could rotate and hold my breath long enough to hang there and contemplate a strategy. After several minutes of failured attempts, the stability of a canoe seemed more favorable. My desire to kayak ended right there. As far as I was concerned, the fit was uncomfortable, too restrictive, and the boat would not track because it spun like paddling on a round garbage can lid.

After my family grew, I had more free time and stable finances. That’s when I decided to buy a few canoes. My early experience with a kayak spoiled my desire to ever get in a kayak again (it didn’t fit my idea of a relaxed boat for exploring waterways). While trying out the canoes, I saw kids paddling a 9.5 Perception Swifty. The stability and tracking impressed me so much, I bought one to have a solo boat for odd number groups.

As it turned out, the Swifty didn’t fully satisfy my needs. It easily matched the canoes, but it took me only as far as the river deltas, where I sat and wondered what else was out there where the big boats roamed freely.

Well, years later and after many boat upgrades, I’ve traveled every navigable river, creek, cove and tributary on the Upper Chesapeake Bay, from North Point which is the entrance to Baltimore Harbor to the Conowingo Dam, as well as from the Conowingo Dam to just below York, PA. I also paddled the James River multiple times while vacationing, from the Ghost Fleet to the Chickahominy River. Some of my travels were in lesser rec boats but most of it was in the 145 Tsunami.

I have very few kayaking technical skills, yet I covered those areas multiple times, often with my older sister who used a 140 Tsunami. The Tsunami has limitations, but over the 20 years of exploration, I covered a few thousand miles and have encountered some rough conditions. To my chagrin which garnered considerable criticism, I completed all that travel without the need or desire to use my spray skirt. The fact that I bought a spray skirt, a hand operated water pump, and a paddle float, I never (and that means never) felt the need to use that gear and stipped carrying it. That implies one of several things. Either I’m foolhardy, ignorant, stupid, clueless, or lucky. Maybe I’m adequately perceptive. A more likely explanation is the kayaks I trusted on open water of the bay were Wilderness Systems kayaks (140 Pungo, 125, 145 and 175 Tsunamis). I offering testimony that the Tsunamis are seaworth kayaks that deserve greater respect than they are given.

No disagreement with your detailed post. I simply respectfully disagree with more experienced kayakers who suggest that Tsunamis are slow barges made for over sized paddlers, and the incredible primary stability could prove detrimental when encountering harsh conditions. I’ve tried more than one kayak, and I have no reservations relying on the Tsunami to carry me far and wide. I never encountered any circumstances that I felt the boat couldn’t handle. Despite my focus on speed so I can explore further, the .1 to .2 mph speed penalty is a small compensation for the comfort and added stability that allows me to relax and enjoy the experience.

By the way, I respect your knowledge about footwear. Unfortunately, I tend to buy shoes that fit, only to find them to be too tight after I get them home. I think it has something to do with old age. For most of my mid-years, I could buy the same shoe size and simply bought the same style until the shoe was discontinue. Since I turned 60, shoes just dont seem to fit. Go figure.

[kapungo]

I have to take some issue with the lazyness comment of rec boaters from a different perspective. I don’t think it should be about theoretical top speed. I went out in search of more speed so I could go further in my paddles. I found when trying to “move up” to a basic touring kayak, I found no speed difference whatsoever and after three different test paddles of different 14’ models, have concluded it is me. I go about 3 mph in a comfortable sustained paddle in my 12’ Prodigy (28" width, huge cockpit, around 60 pounds) and the same speed in the snug fitting narrower 14’ boats. So why would I shell out cash for something harder to load, carry and store? I don’t need the extra storage I need to paddle more, work on a better stroke and maybe then it will be worth upgrading. I think a lot of people coming from rec boats are more like me than the more serious paddlers going for hours or days.

[Jyak]

Not intending to speak on behalf of Shadepine, but he acknowledged that some kayakers do have physical limitations. In fairness, I fell into that mindset but don’t feel the slightest bit intimidated. Despite the 175 being more suited for my ambition, I decided to take the easy way out by using the 145 Tsunami because it’s easier to load, transport, and unload. In the end, it is up to each paddler to select the kayak and gear that fill his or her individual needs.

His comment characterized me. Fortunately, I realized that the best kayak wasn’t the convenient choice but the one that safely and effectively fulfilled my goals. I’ve since concluded that the longer boat satisfied the requirement for speed, safety and comfort, so I grin and bear the short interval involving trip preparation. Fortunately, storage isn’t an issue for me.

My advice as always, right or wrong, is that you don’t have to upgrade any equipment unless you need to enhance safety or if there’s a fault or aspect of the design that you could improve upon to enhance your paddling experience. Still the paddler’s choice.

[Erk]

@Jyak I didn’t read every post on this topic but I don’t believe anyone is saying the Tsunami isn’t a good kayak. It’s a very good kayak, I especially like the 12’ to 14’ lengths. My post was simply my opinion, no hate and no judgement for anybody who paddles one. It is a higher volume kayak, with a touch more clearance in the cockpit, which is probably why slightly larger folks tend to gravitate towards that in the Wilderness sit in line up. It also comes with a different seat than some others, furthering the comfort. I’ve paddled a tsunami many times and have always had a good time, I just prefer more rocker and a soft chine vs hard chine.

Choosing a higher end kayak already IS an upgrade, wouldn’t you think? Better hull design, better seat materials, thicker plastic, better seals on hatches, ability to install a rudder if one ever wants to. Those are upgrades in my opinion which drastically increases the safety from the get go.

Here are a couple tsunamis. The yellow is the 175 and the green was a 160, which fit me well. The photo of the two tsunamis and the black nordkapp were from late March, easy paddling. The photo of the yellow tsunami, red tempest 165 and two nordkapps was the second week of April on Lake Superior. We had good easy days and plenty of big waves, wind and snow squalls, and the tsunami did just fine. No complaints, it’s a solid boat but we all have preferences.

[sing]

@Jyak

Still the paddler’s choice.

This has always been the case. What others think of your choice is irrelevant, unless you let it be relevant.

I personally have gone through a high number of boats. Some because my skills and interests were evolving and others because these fit other ecceletic purposes that i am interested in (e.g Hobie Rev pedal kayak for chasing big stripers and blues).

I try and largely succeed in ignoring other’s opinions. The only person that I might be answerable to would be my spouse ( and she is supportive because she knows I worked hard and earned my way). Ultimately. I enjoy my boats and are now enjoying them more because of greater free time afforded by retirement.

LIfe is short. More enjoyment usually if you are able to not get caught up with negativity (real or perceived).

-sing

[Jyak]

Absolutely. How, I don’t always get that vibe from the forum, but I do believe any suggestions are sincerely intended as sound guidance. I selected my equipment by trial and error and am very satisfied with my choice. However, I regret to say that if I had followed some of the advice I read, I have no doubt that I would have quit the sport a long time ago or stayed with it as long as I did. It seems there is a tendency to guide people into far more advanced boats than they may want or need.

I feel a certain kinship with @Erk in that I started with rec class boats and evolved through trial and error. Even though I’ll never elevate to your pursuits, the details you offer not only inform but serve as motivation for those who would like to explore different aspects of kayaking. You never dictate what others need. Instead, you explain what works for you and why you like it. Your dedication to the activity and self-confidence inspires.

[Jyak]

My comment were not directed to your post but to a persistent attitude that seems common on the forum (of course there could be many advocates who keep their opinion personal or are afraid to express a favorable view about the boat.

Fairly detailed posts indicate that the Tsunami compare favorable to the highly regarded Tempest, which compares favorably to the Chatham. Yet when the topic comes up, the Tsunami is typically the object of derision. My intent is not to put every kayaker in a Tsunami. The purpose is to draw attention to many attribute, and limitations, so it becomes more difficult for uninformed poster to submit spurious, unsupported nonsense. That’s all. I would have to review your prior post, but I can’t recall any content that I felt was unfair or unwarranted.

[Erk]

I feel it’s really easy to throw out a bunch of words from a phone or computer and dust your hands saying “that’s that”! Whether it was aimed at someone else’s comment for a battle or it was a simple gesture to help guide someone. However it was said on one end can easily be taken the opposite on the other end. The downside to texts and messages, no emotions and a lack of expressions. No matter however many emojis one supplies. So I appreciate your words.

I take and took no offense to your reply’s nor anybody else’s, unless there were some messages that were truly aimed at me or anybody else.

Regardless of what people think and say about the tsunami, the tempest, the Chatham, looksha, Skerray, caribou, Carolina etc etc… what fits you might not fit me, or Greenland versus British versus baidarkas… there are so many variations to kayaks and that can make it difficult to find a sea kayak but it can also be a lot of fun to see how they all paddle. Playing with the rocker to turn sharper, or going with a longer flatter keel to rack up those miles. It’s what feels right to that individual for their purpose.

We kayak for many reasons and should keep kayaking for those reasons. Regardless of the kayak or what others think of it

[sing]

@Jyak

However, I regret to say that if I had followed some of the advice I read, I have no doubt that I would have quit the sport a long time ago or stayed with it as long as I did. It seems there is a tendency to guide people into far more advanced boats than they may want or need.

There is a lot of advice offered in these forums. The suggestions to seriously considered would be related to safety (if one values being alive well into the future). Everything else… Just take it or leave it with no great importance. Ultimately, regardless of advice (solicited or otherwise), one paddles because one wants to. One quits because one decided the activity is not enjoyable.

-sing

[Jyak]

In May 2018, I permanently damaged my left rotator cuff, which I believed would end my kayaking adventures. My nephew took up kayaking and asked me to help him repair a badly used 145 Tsunami. While researching the web for parts and advice, I came across the forum. You probably realize that the forum content is available to the public but only members can contribute. The content so impressed me, I decided to join so I could share the knowledge I gained by trial and error from fifteen years of kayaking. Little did I know at the time that the forum would be so instrumental, not only inspiring me to resume kayaking but also helping me to match and exceed the performance I achieved while younger with a functional left shoulder.

While some readers are selective about the topics they follow, I read everything. I also go back to read archived topic, because it often requires multiple viewings before a skill can be fully understood and mastered. When I respond to general topics, I try to address the novice kayaker. This forum is popular because it serves a wide range of interest; however, I get the impression that some advice is intended to promote the “brand I use is the best,” regardless of the kayaking style the reaser is pursuing. Everybody doesn’t need a boat that feels like walking a tight rope; everybody doesn’t need a sea kayak; everybody doesn’t need a fast boat (I probably misunderstood one of your comment, but hull length is most influential in determining potential speed of a displacement boat. The longer the water line, the faster the potential speed, until it reaches the hull limit. Features such as width, bow and stern shape, hull form, and weight may determine how long it takes to get up to speed, how long it remains on glide, or how much energy it takes to sustain speed, but hull length ultimately decides the speed). You aptly point out that it’s up to the individual to decide.

What I expect from a public forum is the ability to openly exchange accurate, valud information on how to paddle faster or more effeciently, without having some fragile mind explaining that speed isn’t everything. I’ve been hit with that on a post asking for advice about how to paddle faster, specifically during a “10 mile race.”

Shortly after joining the forum, one post ended with the OP actually terminating his forum association with a parting comment that I can only paraphrase: “I should have know that asking experienced kayakers advice on a rec kayak was a waste of time.” How tragic.

This forum is voluntary, open to everyone, anonymous, free . . . We should welcome all comments without denegrating another person’s contribution.

The last thing I intend to do is raise the lowly Tsunami to superboat fame. It is not, but it can do certain things very well. It isn’t rated as a fast boat, but it also isn’t a pig (those comments come from the archives, not the present - everything we post is a matter of permanent record). On the other hand, the moniker “barge” isn’t necessarily a negative trait, because the 175 Tsunami does boast a maximum capacity of 400 lbs. I don’t resent negative comments, as long as the information is accurate and in perspective.

[sing]

@Jyak

It seems there is a tendency to guide people into far more advanced boats than they may want or need

I Just remember this interesting exchange with a potential buyer when I was selling my Delphin 150, after I bought my Sterling. Potential buyer asked why I was selling the Delphin 150. I said I am into kayak surfing and just purchased a kayak (visible on top of my car rack) that is more designed specifically for surf and ocean play. He asked how much did my new boat cost. No biggie. I told him and he said, “I would never spend that much money for a kayak!” I just chuckled, thinking that I never suggested that he should consider a Sterling, never mind my Delphin.

To conclude, I let him look over my Delphin and have him sit in the boat. It was a snug fit for his feet as he was 6’ tall. I asked how long has he been kayaking and what type of venue does he paddle. He was a novice seakayaker involved with a local sea kayak club. I suggested he would be better off in a higher volume boat and to look for the bigger Delphin 155 or to look at another brand/model altogether sInce he was not specifically Into longboat play.

In the end, I met up with and sold the Delphin to a sea kayaker in Maine who was getting his itch for surfing and rockplay. He already had a touring kayak by a another Brit manufacturer but wanted a more surf oriented design like the DelphIn. He was happy to buy my boat.

My sentiment is that folks can/should be a little more responsible for their own research, decision-making and actions.

-sing

[Jyak]

You’re responsible approach is apparent in all of your posts. We each have our own goals and limits. As I mentioned earlier, I have no desire to tackle the elements as you do, but your imput has helped me improve my approach to riding the waves I inevitably encounter. Your content is always respectful.

I paddled with someone who was in a boat that I can only dream about, primarily because It’s undersized for me. Competent paddlers with highly refined skills often overlook the reality that everyone doesn’t have the same coordination, reflexes, or desire for a challenge from intense action.

For myself, I tolerate adverse conditions for the sake of exploration. My goal is a boat that offers a greater degree of balance, speed, and comfort that allows me to achieve that goal. While you look for gale force conditions, I draw the line at that level - not because I fear such conditions, but because the additional effort hampers my ability to achieve the goal of exploring further. Along the same vien, some kayakers only look for a stable platform to go out in the middle of a cove, to be rocked by the gentle waves, breath the air, feel the sun and witness life around them. Consequently, my focus on paddles, paddling efficiency, and speed, which requires that I closely monitoring activities and carefully record progress in detailed log entries, is inconsequential to either extreme. At one extreme, almost anything that floats will do, but at your level, the tools must be carefully matched.

As participants and contributors on the forum, we need to be able to offer what we know and be given the respect for the contribution, unless its inaccurate. One benefit of reading every post is that it expands our base of knowledge. Before the novice paddler asks a question, it would be advantageous to “surf” previous posts. The question has probably already been answered, and the new member will learn a great deal about the dynamics of life on the forum. Rather than a free for all, it might be prudent to direct questions about specific issues by direct message to the members who have select knowledge on that topic. Just a thought, especially if the new member is timid about mixing it up in the public arena.

[sing]

@Jyak

You’re responsible approach is apparent in all of your posts. We each have our own goals and limits.

Exactly. While i don’t always respond, I have also read enough of your posts to know that you are into paddling for fitness and challenging yourself to beat your own times on your usual loops. You know your venue and stay within your safety margins. I am pretty sure you are a faster paddler than I am. Regardless, you know what you are doing, with the equipment you use. I respect that. But, even if I (and others) did not, I would encourage you to not give a fig. Make your own joy and meaning in whatever you do. What others think can just be a distraction (or detraction if you let it). Why be bothered?

-sing

[Jyak]

What others think doesn’t actually bother me. Two things about the forum impressed me the most. Mostly is Pretty Pictures, because they portray the beauty that we all can experience and enjoy, regardless of the quality of our boats or the level of skill. Equally stimulating are the posts about overcoming physical limitations.

One thing I agree with @Shadepine (at the risk if misunderstanding his statement), is that our nature is to conserve energy, which makes us “lazy”, in that we are programmed to store and conserve. That is true in many of us, whether it involves investing in equipment, energy, learning, or exploring.

There’s irony in the reaction many members have to kayakers in rec boats in how they don’t recognize the danger, while the critic often engages challenges that far exceed any predicament the novice would ever consider. “Who Dares Wins.”

On the second topic, some of us use it as an opportunity to challenge our limitations. Whether the challenge is going faster or further, facing harsh conditions, or just enjoying the moment; whether in a canoe, kayak or skiff, we face the challenge with a paddle or an oar; it doesn’t matter why we’re there as much as our common approach. It’s interesting that I can’t recall canoers chastising paddlers for buying “rec” canoes . . . if there is such a thing.

There was a great thread that considered the expense compared to the miles traveled. There are two ways to look at it. Primarily, the limit is what you can afford and how much time you can devote to paddling. However, the best part is that once you made the investment, all you have to do is pursue it. The more you engage, the more cost effective it is to participate. Everything you invest pays more dividends the longer you use it. Other than replacing my worn seat pads, a nylon belt that supports the seat back, and stretched bungee cords, the expenses have been discretionary. I also replaced a PFD after close to 15 years of wear.

For me, the focus on efficiency solved the problem of my physical limitations. That became easier once I saw others who overcame greater debilitation than mine. My intent for posting data was not to show my accomplishment as much as to illustrate that physical shortcomings could be overcome with improved technique. Rather than feel deprived, I found inspiration, very much like your example.

In view of your level of conditioning, I think you underestimate your speed potential. You’re one of many kayakers that I wouldn’t challenge in an outright race of any distance, especially in choppy conditions. My simple goal is to publish the data and explain the techniques I use in hope that at least one reader benefits.

In my case, the enhanced speed merely enables me to explore beyond my immediate area.

[Shadepine]

I think we all agree, each to their own. People have different goals, and that’s fine.

[Sort of off-topic for this thread, but what the heck] I come from a racing background (whitewater slalom racing, decades ago—but it gets in your head and stays there, LOL). I remember when I started actively training and racing…it was a revelation of sorts for me that there are people who use their arms at the same level of intensity that most of us use our legs.

Put differently, most people don’t find the idea of running several miles or hiking up mountains even farther unusual or even that difficult. Everyone acts like that’s natural. But in decades of observing paddlers, very few of them use their arms at the same level of intensity—for example, getting your heartrate up to the same levels it would be when running, but doing it in a kayak. I’m not suggesting people are lazy…rather that there is something about kayaks that just makes paddling easy feel right and natural.

I paddle hard and fast for fitness, but also because getting fit enough to paddle at 80-90% for miles makes it a lot easier to go farther (and just be able to see more)…and also when you’re that fit, dealing with rough conditions, wind, and paddling against tidal currents becomes “not a big deal.” So again, it expands your envelope for what’s possible.

Like others, I’m not passing judgement. Just saying I enjoy the harder end of the spectrum, as opposed to the more relaxed end.

I recently connected with a coastal paddling club here in Oregon. And I quickly discovered that very few (if any) of the dozens of people in the club paddle any of the same waters I do. I enjoy paddling big, open bays and estuaries just a mile or less from the Pacific (and when conditions are calmer, in the Pacific itself). Most of the club members paddle small lakes in calm conditions. That’s it. Nothing wrong with that at all…but I get bored on small lakes and calm conditions, LOL. Most of them probably think I have a deathwish or something.

@kapungo - I think length makes a bigger difference in speed than width. I’m sure you’d find a big difference in speed between a 16’ kayak and a 14 footer. In the 16’ foot boat, you could probably average 4mph (while remaining comfortable), which in a kayak is considerably faster than 3mph. And paddled hard, a 17’ kayaks will cruise at 5mph. (Not suggesting this is better—if distance isn’t your goal then it’s irrelevant. )

Scott

[kanoniem]

Unlike paddling, walking comes quite naturally since we start doing it at a very young age.
I myself started rowing when I was 9 years old and paddling at 26.

@Shadepine

I think length makes a bigger difference in speed than width. I’m sure you’d find a big difference in speed between a 16’ kayak and a 14 footer. In the 16’ foot boat, you could probably average 4mph (while remaining comfortable), which in a kayak is considerably faster than 3mph. And paddled hard, a 17’ kayaks will cruise at 5mph.

All depends on design (which includes width).
I can cruise at 5.8 mph (5.0 kn) in my 14’5" long 23.6" wide kayak. And because its design is optimized for speed, I can even reach 6.5 mph (5.7 kn) for half an hour or so if I am so inclined.

Most touring kayaks are not designed for that, probably because that kind of speeds are too incidentally for most touring paddlers?

[Jyak]

@Shadepine, you remind me that calm lakes are similar to bicycling on flat ground or the C&O canal that is about 2% downhill for the length. While its great to zone out and relax, it can become monotonous. There are times when I take time to relax and enjoy conditions, but mostly, I seek a limited challenge. When the challenge become too technical, the intense focus of staying upright detracts from my paddling experience, because the survival becomes the focus. Amazingly, some kayakers/canoeist live for the technical aspects, but at the other extreme, other paddlers don’t want the distraction of worrying about time or speed - the goal just being time on the water. Regardless of the end goal, we all have decided to “share the same boat.”

The reason I prefer solo paddling is that finding another paddler with the same emotional mindset at that moment is nearly impossible. While finding a compatible paddling partner is exhilerating, that doesn’t ensure perpetual compatibility, because we grow at different rates. Maybe that’s why group trips flourish for a while then fade. It’s not always possible to retain or rekindle that magic, so enjoy it when it happpens.

My longest trip started as a local paddle on a foggy morning. The experience was so rare and magical that I didn’t want to stop. Conditions were favorable and no threat loomed in the offing, so I kept paddling, which overextended my stamina and water supply. I survived through perseverance and had no desire to go that far again, but it turned out to be one of the most memorable trips. We learn from our experiences. Back then, I was a power paddler, but I learned that power only last so long, and when it’s gone, it doesn’t regenerate in short order.

The value of this forum is that it allows each to find social compatibility, inspiration, paddling opportunities, a chance to sharing of beautiful things, exhange technical knowledge, and the opportunity to absorb information and grow at an individual pace. This is free, voluntary and anonymous (for the most part). Consequently, no one should be made to feel less competent or unwelcome. The shared information is free, but the price is paid by the one who takes the time to share. Challenge someone’s free expression too often and the exchange of ideas eventually dies. Intolerance ruins it for everyone and leads to an empty void.

I sometimes think about the objections to a hijacked thread or off topic posts. Although continuity of thought make sense, especially when it enhances the ability to archive and retrieve topics of interest, thoughts often evolve at random moments. Therefore, it’s important to respect that a particular topic triggered an unrelated thought track for someone. The impromtu expression can take two tracks - it either runs the risk of evaporating or it gets expressed where it will be lost in the files and unretrievable. So be it. It’s far easier for us to selectively review that post than it is for the person to repress the expression. If someone has something to say or reveal, it’s worthy of attention. If you think otherwise, ignore it!

@kanoniem those are enviable accomplishments. One of the most enjoyable aspects of kayaking is the efficiency of the design and the ability to measure progress. The frustration is deciding a compromise between the various design features and how each impacts the paddling experience. My dream boat is an Impex Assateague, 17’10" by 22.5", but I’m not sure that I want to give up the indestructible touring boat that I know so well and does everything that I expect of it.

Touring boats, for the most part, favor tracking and are basically pick up trucks Making one go faster is the challenge. I agree that length is the limiter, because without length in a displacement hull, there is no speed. I’m sure we’d agree that length doesn’t mean speed will follow. If a paddler can’t exceed 3.5 mph in a 14 ft kayak, he or she shouldn’t expect to hit 3.6 mph in a 16 foot boat. The result might be slower if the boat is heavier and displaces more water. Weight, width and hull shape mostly impact acceleration, energy requirement, glide, and the ultimate hull speed the shape generates a more significant bow wave.