So I am looking at my ww boats under the porch, right now it's down to a Chronic, Ultrafuge and Trickster. These boats fit me, my wife and my younger son (? how long). Anyway, the Chronic is one of the newer sub 7' boats and I like and use it more these days up to class III. Ultrafuge is a longer older generation playboat and very slicey on both ends (got my butt kicked bad with it on a class IV). Trickster is an okay stern squirter but better surfer (I used this more in the ocean than white water). I'm thinking of getting rid of either the Ultrafuge or the Trickster in favor of an all rounder that will still fit us but will provide some forgiveness for me next season when I take a shot at the Dryway/class IV. I am looking at the Riot Booster, Dagger Juice, or maybe a Dagger GT. Anyone have comments how these ride for you, or any other boat that may fit the bill? Figure I'll have all winter to locate a used one and have it on hand for spring.
Thanks,
sing
Liqudlogic Trigger?
No experience, but it looks good. Pyranha i3:221 might also be a possibility. There was a used one up at Suncook last month.
Oh Man…
Forgot Suncook kayak was having a moving sale…
Yeah, the Trigger may also fit the bill. Being newer one, folks are asking more for a used one though. I’m hoping to sneak in with no more than $500 max.
sing
What ya really need is a C boat!
So rip that butt pad out. Install a real by god pedestal and some thighstraps or maybe a nice foam console. Then cut that silly extra blade off of your paddle and put on a T grip like it’s supposed to have. Then get up on your knees and have some fun!
Ya, I know, fat chance.
The GT looks like a pretty steady ride.
I saw a guy out at New Boston in an older Necky ? (~8’ displacement hull) using a Greenland paddle on the class II. Dunno how he sized it but he was doing alright and having a good time.
You Funny…
with my creaky knees, you think I would want to rip my seat out? And, there's that joke about being overly "optimistic" where you cut... Oh never mind. Why would I want to handicap myself with one blade.
You open boaters are really silly but I still like to paddle with you guys 'cause you can carry lots of beer and pretty funny in the after paddle pizza joint. :)
Huh... GP at New Boston? One of those Walden Scum guys must have gotten loose on the last big rain storm and flushed onto a river. Was he wearing a "black ninja" outfit? :)
sing
some thoughts
I am currently using a GT as my river runner and just had a chance to mess around in a Booster a couple days ago. Both are excellent boats that should be fine in class IV waters. Like most Riot boats, the Booster seems like a great wave boat and is much more playful than the GT. The person I was borrowing the boat from had taken it down class V successfully so it can punch through sticky holes very well (of course it’s no creeker). The GT is a rock solid boat which gives you a great feeling of comfort and confidence on the water. It is more forgiving than the Booster but also less fun. Basically both would suit your needs and as I’m not sure what sort of class IV runs you’re going to be on, I can’t give a recommendation as to the river/play boat or the true river runner. Try them both out, as I’m sure you’ll like one and love the other.
I recommend the Booster
People who have tried my B55 who have other boats are always surprised at what a nice boat it is. I have a good friend who has a B60 (he is quite a bit bigger than me) who regularly uses it on class IV. Personally I like the outfitting better than any boat I have been in except my Fish. For me, 5’10", 190 lb., the 55 is a good compromise between play and river running. Five people in our teaching group have Boosters (2 50’s, 2 55’s, and 1 60) and all like them.
Thanks Dr. D & Schizopak
I’ve been leaning towards the Booster more than the GT, just because the Booster 50 is still smaller than the smaller GT. And the Booster 50 should be fine for my wife and son in a class II. I was/am still intriqued by the Juice, a river running play boat. But it seems to run bit more towards my Chronic and I don’t want another very similar boat. The other plus is that I like Riot’s smaller cockpits and I have two skirts that fit the Riot cockpit. It helps to not have to worry about spending another $100 for another skirt…
If you see any “cheap” Booster 50 around, especially after Christmas, buzz me for sure.
sing
i’d look at the EZ series also
if you wanna go used. EZ, big EZ, super EZ etc… depending on your size. also, the jackson fun series seems to be a pretty good river-running playboat for a lot of people.
Great Playboat Series…
but I am not sure the EZ has the “forgiveness” I want. I think even if I move up the Big EZ, the deck design is made for some scooping. What I want to do is to run the IV safely and then think about “play” way down the line. I can play right now with my existing boats up to class III, but the jump to IV is big. I want to just “run” first.
sing
if play isn’t a factor
so much for what you want, i’d also look at a creeker or hybrid creeker like the liquid logic hoss, li’l joe, pyranha h3, or wave sport diesel
SO
finally going for the dryway huh. I should be home by the time w/w starts. the piscat in goffstown (my home river, class 2) might be a good try river if you can borrow a boat for the day, then its 30 minutes to the 'took ( 2-4) for the real test if you are comfortable in the boat. Have you hit the lower winnie yet? Kerry is usually pretty good about demo’s.
Nope…
Still haven’t made it to the Lower Winni. Figure you still owe me a guided trip down. 
This past year, I have done mostly spur of the moment trips - mostly to the Deerfield, Androscoggin (by my camp), Piscat twice maybe and I think the Pemi once and Millers once. Mostly I gotten up to the Deerfield, parked the car below the Gap and hitched a ride to the dam. Couple of times, got rides from folks going up to the Dryway. Was sorely tempted but didn’t with memories of the Upper Pemi still in mind.
I think I’m about ready, maybe skip Dragontooth and Labrynth initially… Playing the Gap has gotten kinda routine and even slightly boring because it goes so quickly. There’s only so may carries I want to do in a day.
I hear the Winni take out park is moving along.
sing
Like the Booster better…
Sing, I certainly prefer the Booster over the GT. To me, the GT felt quite large, and “loose” in a bad way. I find the thigh straps comfy on the Boosters, but some people really don’t like them. If I remember, the pre-'02 Boosters used a backband which was supported by an arm off of the seat pan-I really didn’t like the way it felt. Newer Booster outfitting is much better. In addition, if you consider one of the EZs, try before you buy, the foot “cups” are a little odd. Good luck, let us know what you choose.
Atlast some desent ww conversation.
I like ZZZZ recommendations; Over here the pyranha h3 is popular as an all rounder. Am not sure what you mean by “scoop” on the Big EZ and “forgiveness”. I find it very forgiving in terms of initial stability but there are complaints regarding foot fit. For all The Big EZ works for me though some extra volume and length like the larger Pyranha H3 has would suit me better sometimes. I haven’t seen he Diesel but that is something i would like to try for all arounder into Class 4.
“Forgiveness”
in relation to "scoop" on the top deck, by this I mean the hollowed out front and back ends which are intended to catch water and get the boat to go on its ends in currents and holes. The Booster and GT have full, rounded tops that shed water. I want to punch through grabby holes and not do unintentional enders. Notice the deck design on these photos:
http://www.daggereurope.com/prod_catrgy/WWK/pages/ultrafuge.html
http://www.bournemouthcanoes.co.uk/productpages/wave/wave-pics/ez.jpg
http://www.bournemouthcanoes.co.uk/productpages/rn/rnpics/booster-2.jpg
http://www.kayaksandpaddles.co.uk/canoe/kayak/uk/shop/productpages/dager/dagpics/gt-2.jpg
Raddog was with me in the upper Pemi/class IV. In the first several hundred yards, my Ultrafuge was going up in squirts in every big wave train and hole. I had about 5 or 6 capsizes and rolls in just that distance. On a the last capsize which was not even in difficult area (think I was tired out), I went through a strainer... Getting through that with the Grace of... I got off the river and hiked out.
On the class II, the Ultrfuge is a fun boat for doing all kinds fun ends. But I'll not use her again in anything challenging. The Chronic seems to punch through holes well , at least, at the GAP. But I'm looking to avoid a repeat performance on a class IV and thus want a slightly higher volume, slightly longer and more staid design. :)
sing
Have you tried the boat?
The EZ series is a great class IV boat. If you haven’t already demo’ed one on the river, I would not just dismiss it based on the written spec’s.
Bob
I Am Sure It Is…
for someone who knows what they are doing on a class IV. I'm not in that category. I paddle with a couple of folks who use the EZ series on class II and IIIs. They love it, like I currently love my Chronic.
I am trying to get into this coming season as a class IV newbie. I just want to blast and run. No intention of playing grabby holes and big waves just yet. I figure if and when I want to play, I'll bring the Chronic which really is a fun boat for me. That's a ways off yet.
sing
Like the Diesel idea…
I can’t believe I forgot about the Diesel. I paddled it briefly last summer. To say that the Diesel is a lot like the GT would be a mistake, they may look alike as far as hull design goes, but they are considerable different on the water. I believe the Diesel would be a better choice, but you might have trouble with fitment. Even the smallest diesel tends to swallow up smaller paddlers.
Yup…
that's why it isn't on my list. Plus, I would never find a used one under $500, given that it's a newer boat model.
sing