Convince me to spend money on a new paddle

Advice
#156

Superior Kayaks LLC makes a very nice quality paddle. You did good.

The indecision of trying different size paddles usually only comes down to a couple after ruling out the others by width or extreme length or lack of length… After paddling several times, it usually comes down to between two {and they might be different widths.} A 10 mile paddle usually is a decider…so it’s not really that much of a paralyses and becomes rather fun…tho time consuming. The real problem is paddlers are so spread out…it is difficult for anyone to try all the paddles without Gatherings.

Several years ago, when Lendal NA was interested and considering making a Greenland Paddle to manufacture , I should of had this completed series…

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#157

It is also of note that the reach up length test for sizing of a Greenland Paddle only is a ball park place to start, not the end all. If a person is really tall of shorter than average or has long arms or short torso. Or sits high in their kayak or low in their kayak all makes a difference in where the paddle contact the water.

This is why I went the try different paddles method. We are all different and like our paddles to preform for us …not just because a certain size preforms correctly for others.

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#158

This makes sense. I have a very short torso but long arms. The only thing I would change about this paddle if I could would be the loom circumference. It’s larger than I would prefer and that is sometimes a problem, but not enough of a problem that I’m going to replace it.

So while we’re here, do you (or anyone) recommend any particular paddling mitts or gloves? I fear my NRS Maverick gloves no longer work for my hands after many hand surgeries in recent years (and more coming soon). They are too tight in painful areas now. I ended up paddling with bare hands yesterday and I won’t be able to do that much longer. My pogies don’t work well on my GP - I can’t slide them.

#159

I like level six mittens…but they wear out sooner than some others…but it’s what I like.

If you are using an open hand / loose hand paddling technique , the loom size has very little effect and a larger loom is better. {with a cup-able round shoulder} The only place A smaller loom would be noticed is if you have tiny hands and are either doing an Angel roll or are walking and carrying the paddle by the loom center. Try loosing up your grip some as in cradling it rather than gripping it. {YMMV}

1 Like
#160

I do not have tiny hands, and I do use an open very loose grip. Sometimes the paddle pops out of my hand. My other paddles all have small, shaped shafts and never pop out of my hand, so I figured it was related. Maybe my grip is too loose for such a featherweight paddle? I’ll have to play more and figure out what is the real issue.

Thanks for the mitt recommendation. I’ll check them out. I’m sad about these gloves - they’re in perfect condition, but pain is no fun.

#161

How to search Craigslist across the entire U.S.:
http://www.onecraigs.com/craigslist-search/index.htm?q=werner%20kalliste

That search brings this up for $175:

Next step: convince the seller to ship the paddle to you.

I know it sounds risky to buy a paddle from a stranger and have it shipped. I bought a Werner paddle on Craigslist and also sold one; both got shipped across the country and arrived just fine. One key is to talk with the seller by phone to get a sense of their character.

I advise waiting for the right used paddle to show up. In fact, you can often get a good paddle included in a kayak sale on Craigslist. Like this, for example:

#162

Wax your shaft it won’t be so slippy.

#163

Buying a used paddle best thing is to ask for a video. I’m selling a Kalliste so I made a video full length both sides so people can see what they are getting exactly. You could even video the joint with the paddle being assembled. Pictures many times end up with reflections and can be deceiving.

Same thing goes for a kayak especially if your driving a long distance to see it videos are best. If someone has an archaic phone they should have a friend to make a decent quality video.

1 Like
#164

I happened to meet the Lendal NA owner, Michael Duffy, while paddling in the Adirondacks. I suggested there would be a good market for it if they made carbon GPs, and he seemed potentially interested, though of course perhaps just being polite. He’s very personable and easy to talk to. You should send him a message - maybe he would buy your design concept!

1 Like
#165

Back in 2012, Lendal NA asked me to come to Rochester. {from across Northern Wisconsin, just west of The Apostles} I went there. {left from GLSKA symposium where I taught}

I had a slightly different design at the time but the end result was that at that time, it was too small a market and they would have to charge too much for a paddle. I was , however , showing a 4 piece design with interchangeable parts.

So as to be able to customize a paddle to any paddler while in a store. {could change any part without changing any other dimension}

I paddled with Cathy { co-owner of Lendal NA} and Neil {their paddle designer} I was at Duffy’s house etc…stayed at a house owned by Lendal. Did a presentation with all their engineers etc.

End result…too small a market. { long drive}

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#166

That’s too bad. Clearly that was a big mistake. :wink:

2 Likes
#167

I thought so at the time. But as time goes by and I watch all the paddle makers come and go, I realize I’m glad to not be connected to a corporate entity dealing with the public deal seeking consumer.

The paddle I had to show at the time was extremely inferior to what I have made since. Also my focus as to what is important in a paddle has also changed. {I cut up all those that I had made back them}

I am glad that what I had at the time was never mass produced.

My Non Disclosure Agreements have also aged out. I like my retirement…

Maybe someday the major paddle companies will decide to enter the game of Greenland Paddle making , After all…when stand up paddle boards hit the market, They all jumped on producing paddles for those.

For some reason Greenland Paddles seem to be left out.

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#168

Maybe Greenland paddles, despite their long history, are the wave of the future. :wink:

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#169

I never really gave a GP a thought when I got a kayak. I think my perception was that they were somehow best suited for Greenland style serious kayaks and kayakers. And, that they delivered less power requiring a faster cadence, which seemed more tiring to me than pushing a big barn door through the water. I wonder how common those misperceptions are and maybe GP needed to be marketed differently or more aggressively to attempt to educate the gear buying consumer of alternative choices. I’ve read a number of people remark how a GP helps with shoulder issues.

It also seemed that some of the kayaking books and articles I’ve read In the past discussed GP more in terms of the olde timey forefather of modern paddles rather than a paddle that has stood the test of time and is still perfectly suitable.

I actually haven’t been paddling much recently (other obligations and, wouldn’t you know it, shoulder problems) and tried the advice to to buy something new or an improvement to your gear to kick start your focus. I bought a whistle but that didn’t do it. So, looking at carbon GP might do the trick…

1 Like
#170

I don’t think I’ve ever been in a shop with a GP on display, Mike. And the few people I’ve seen with them were also paddling wooden, or home built boats. So I think it’s viewed as a subculture at least by manufacturers and shops.

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#171

When I went to Rochester NY, in 2012, this is one of the things I hoped to change. Lendal had a distribution system in place. So besides owning the copyright to the only system that when snugged up, makes a multi-piece paddle feel like a one piece {Lendal Padlock system} They could just ship Greenland Paddles to their vendors along with their Euro paddles. The lack of Greenland Paddles to try and buy hampers paddlers from adding one to their gear assortment.

After all , it is just another style of paddle. Paddlers need easy access to all style of paddles to see what works for them.

The only commercially available Carbon Greenland Paddle , made in the US is the Superior Kayak Paddle and it has never been mass produced and distributed like Lendal, Werner, Bending Branches …etc. Superior’s business model was {and is} for a person to order direct from them. {this appears to also be the business model of all the other Greenland Paddles made}

Greenland Paddles will only hit the mainstream, when it is available to be purchased right alongside all the other styles of paddles.

The distribution of Greenland Paddles has actually quietly done quite well considering. Twenty years ago it was rare to see any outside a Greenland Gathering. Now you see them at all the major symposiums and many coaches carry and use one.

If one of the major paddle companies ever gets onboard and decides they want to offer a Greenland Paddle, Then we will see them in stores as they should be. There is money for them to make by just adding one to their list.

Lendal was wrong about the cost. A Greenland Paddle can be made using the same technology that is used to make Euro Paddles and the cost would be comparable.

Duffy and Cathy were new to the paddle industry {and to paddling} at the time and I didn’t properly present. I am sure they thought about machine upgrades to facilitate making a full length Greenland Paddle. I was however thinking 4 piece paddles with each part made separately…The way I had done several, with parts made different years and when assembled , look to have been made as one. The time was wrong for them to take on another design. Maybe some day the stars will align and then The Greenland Paddle , The Euro Paddle , The Wing Paddle will all be on the same wall in stores.

The companies just need the vision …the same vision use to market all the other paddles they make. The same vision they used to convince paddlers that a Euro Paddle was the only one and paddlers needed theirs.

3 Likes
#172

The issue with Greenland paddles is they cost only about $50 to make. They don’t require enormous woodworking skills, only patience. And when finished they are custom designed for the paddler.

Admittedly, a shop could design an automated lathe that could knock out custom Greenland paddles pretty quickly, but the profit margin is just not there. In addition, I could see clients unhappy with the finished product, even though they supplied the specifications.

Although they are appreciated by many seasoned paddlers, overall, they are still a niche product in the overall paddling community. Sales of sea kayaks are falling while sales for rec boats, fishing kayaks, and SUPs are growing rapidly.

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#173

We’re talking carbon GPs, though. For people like me with zero woodworking skills and lacking the time to make one, or people who just want a shiny black stick cause that’s how they roll (oops, pun alert).

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#174

rstevens15

13h

The issue with Greenland paddles is they cost only about $50 to make. They don’t require enormous woodworking skills, only patience. And when finished they are custom designed for the paddler.

This is true of a Wooden Euro Paddle too. If a person has the skill to make a Greenland Paddle, they also have the skill to make a Euro Paddle.

#176

I just got my dream paddle a Gearlab IPIK, I did borrow a Kalliste for a month last summer and loved it. Liked it better than my Tango. I made a wooden Greenland paddle that I enjoyed learning on and now I can’t wait for warmer water!