Tideline and best mentioned in the same
context … woo hoo … don’t wake me up … LOL
Camvan, please see email, happy to discuss.
Thank you.
hmm
i like the QCCs, I own two 700s, but the new Epics look like they hit the mark even better!!!
Betsie Bays
QCCs are nice and all, but Betsie Bays are the mark of true cultists. I love my valkyrie. My friend’s QCC 600 is fun, but not nearly as much fun as my boat. Seriously, the best boat is the one that you have. My BBK valkyrie wouldn’t be the right boat for lots of people, but for me, it’s large enough for camping trips, fast enough for anything, well mannered in rough water, fun to roll, and very very agile. Other people would want a much larger, heavier, higher volume boat.
Tideline is a bit of a mystery
I like what I see/read too, but have never seen a Tideline in person or know anyone who has paddled on except of course Patrick. Given his passion and attention to detail I assume the best. Love to try one someday, should I ever get out to SD again…
More interested to see the Mermaid - and hopefully a successor to the 19 with a similar updated design.
QCC needs no leap of faith. Order, try - and keep or send back - at their expense. More info/opinions/reviews than anyone needs online too.
Perfect?- heck no. The hull design is great and construction fantastic. Customer service pretty top notch as well. Any boat can me outfitted to get by the remaining small stuff to make them truly yours.
Wondering…
“Any boat can me outfitted to get by the remaining small stuff to make them truly yours.”
How do you outfit pretty? 
Try…
… pink minicell?
ps.
ps - there are different Pygmy models developed over time, good kits, they should have coaming recesses and one piece coamings though.
pps - A lot of differences perceived by skilled paddlers will be lost on you but the lack the skill (primarily bracing) for these boats may keep you on the edge of your comfort zone longer than necessary.
hell I think the Manitou 13 is a perfect kayak.
Can’t Be… Yet.
No boat means not cred with any of the cults.
“I’m talking about a bout that can go on big deep water for overnight trips (mostly lakes).”
That criteria make it wide open. The use of the word, “best”, however, draws all the “cultists” in. Nice (inadvertant) troll. 
My recommendation… The first used boat anywhere from 13-17’ feet, with storage room for weekend to a week’s worth of gear, that fits the requirment of your wallet. It’ll be the “best” boat for about a year until your taste becomes more discriminating from experience and/or the pretty words of the cultists trolling for another convert.
sing
I don’t personally own this boat, but
if I did have to choose JUST ONE boat, it would be the Prijon Yukon Expedition.
- quality plastic (won’t oil-can)
- not as expensive as composite
- can pack loads of gear
- can be used on lakes, slow rivers, and up to Class III whitewater
An excellent all-around kayak. I don’t have one because I can afford to have more than one kayak, so my boats tend to be more specialized (a whitewater boat, a touring boat, a rec boat, etc.). Also, I rarely do primitive camping - always car camping so I don’t have a need to haul a lot of gear with me.
FYI, some of the reviews say it’s hard to make this boat go straight (the trihedral hull makes it a very maneuverable kayak - some might say TOO maneuverable). I have paddled one, and for me, tracking straight wasn’t difficult at all. Depends on your paddling skills. If you don’t allow yourself to become “rudder dependent” and instead opt to learn good paddling technique, you will do fine.
Agree with Donna.
someone go and say it…
the Explorer come on, half of you have them! they have it all, the perfect balance and blend of attributes. truly, it probably is as close as you can get in a sea kayak, not too big, not too small, not too tracky, not too turny, its just right, this boat is the moose under the table in this silly thread, go on and come out all you 1000’s of NDK owners, call it like it is!
call it like it is!
Hmmm…
And you complain about Americans LOL!
Okay… I Just Have To Ask…
– Last Updated: Aug-20-06 6:47 AM EST –
Who wrote this assessment, especially the last part?:
"- quality plastic (won't oil-can)
- not as expensive as composite
- can pack loads of gear
- can be used on lakes, slow rivers, and up to Class III whitewater
I'm sure some really skilled ww paddler can take this baby down a class III. Look at that rocker {NOT!) on this sweet 16 plus footer:
http://www.wildnet.com/tour.asp?name=barracuda
I feel sorry for the newbie that "buys" that line and gives it a go down a class III. (Sigh, more koolaid anyone...?)
sing
Related Joke…
This popped into my mind…
_______________________________________________
It’s TGIF at a fancy bar on top of a highrise. Two guys are downing the drinks at the bar.
1st guy: You know, it’s amazing what your body can do if your mind really concentrates and believes it.
2nd guy: Well… I dunno…
1st guy: Really, it’s true. For example, if I really concentrate and believe, I can jump out that window and land safely down below.
2nd guy: You’re nuts!
1st guy: I’ll show you! (With that, he runs over to the window, opens it and jumps out.)
2nd guy: (Watching and aghast…) OhMyG…
(About 3 minutes later, the 1st guy walks through the door and sits back down on his stool.
1st guy: See what you can do if you really concentrate and believe! Try it!
2nd guy: (Still somewhat in disbelief…) You think so… Okay, I have a pretty strong mind… I’ll do it! (He walks over to the window and jumps out. A few seconds later, a horrifying scream can be heard, only to be abruptly cut off by an even more horrifying “THUD!!!”
1st guy: (Takes another sip of his drink and chuckles…)
bartender: (Comes up to the 1st guy, with some trepidation…) Superman, I’m going to have to cut you off… You get really evil when you have one too many…
_____________________________________________
sing
16 footer?
Maybe we have a misunderstanding here. The Yukon Expedition is about 14.5 feet. The website says “whitewater capable” but doesn’t specify class. I do know someone who owns this boat who takes it on Class II’s frequently and I thought had taken it on some III’s but I may have to double check that. So I probably should have just said “whitewater capable”.
But I never said anything about the Barracuda. I know someone with that boat, too, and it can be hard to keep upright on the lake.
Donna
Here’s a review on Pnet…
…from a guy named Michael who actually did, it appears, take the 21 cinh beamed, tippy as all get-out, Barracuda down a Texas whitewater river. Can you imagine? Cut and pasted directly from the Pnet review.
Submitted by: Michael
04-10-2006
Bought a used 2004 Barracuda a month or two ago for racing (or at least practicing) on rivers here in Texas. I’ve made two different 23 mile runs on the upper Guadalupe that included 55 sets of rapids and or falls. I’ve made two differnt runs on the upper San Marcos that included Cottenseed rapids and a lot of trees blocking the whole river. Like I said I bought this boat to have something bomb proof to practice on while there are so many rocks and other hazards exposed on the rivers. I’m thrilled with my purchase. The boat handles beautifully in all the rapids and even going over 2’ waterfalls. In places where there were too many rocks to use the rudder or to stick the paddle in for effective steering a simple twist at the waist and the boat edges right through the sharp turns. I too have a Touryak and this boat is far faster and more agile. The secondary stability is incredible. Considering that I knew full well I was buying a plastic boat it has done all I expected. The only complaint I have is that being 6’ tall with a 34" inseam, I can just barely get my last foot in the cockpit after sitting down. But, I can get it in! The other complaint which again was a “known” is that it weighs 60#s. So, I’m saving up for the day I can afford and justify a composite kayak. But that purchase wouldn’t be able to handle the rocks and boulders any better than my Wenonah Voyager (Kevlar Ultra-light.) Bottom line is that this is the best value, bomb-proof, fastest boat I could find and I love it. BTW, my 14 year old that seldom agrees to go loves it too and he took it through 11 miles of the San Marcos including rapids as well.
Rating: 9 of 10
My Bad…
here’s the Yukon Expedition:
http://www.wildnet.com/tour.asp?name=yukon
About 2.5’ shorter than the 'Cuda. Same rocker… (nil). I give credit to Prijon for writing this in the intended usage:
“RIVER TOURING
Versatility is the key. The Yukon Expedition is a do-it-all kayak that is very well suited for river touring where quick maneuvers are a possibility. If your river touring is on wide lazy rivers clear of obstacles.”
Yup, very maneuverable because the trilateral hull affords “quick maneuvers” on “wide, lazy rivers clear of obstacles.”
This is similar to saying a “sharp chine” design enables “X” boat to carve and turn crisply in the surf zone.
sing
Yup…
I am sure more than a few folks have bought a 'Cuda based on Michael’s review, even though they have no clue who Michael is/was nor what his skills are/were.
In turn, the new 'Cuda owners will say their boats are at least 8/10 on the scale and surely capable of running a class III although the person never did it a class II, never mind a III. But, it is certainly doable because an “authority” has said and reviewed as much.
sing
Thanks for the clarification, sing
and just for the record, I didn’t mean to suggest that the Yukon was a great whitewater boat, just that it was capable of handling limited whitewater and might be a good choice for someone who can only own one all-around boat.
I dunno
I would think the perfect boat is the one that is built by hand with lots of time in the water before hand. Greyak has a beautiful SOF that has probably three to five times as many “think” hours in it than build time. But after the second modification, Greyak got almost exactly what he wanted for him. And surprisingly enough, it is usable by just about anyone and is at least as maneuverable and stable as any commercial kayak out there.
So I think Greyak got close anyway. I woudl be dissapointed in him if he was completely satisfied with it. Always room for improvement in anything so that is why there is no perfect kayak.
Paul
Paul